Phoenix, some years ago when I was in Turkey I talked to a young couple in honeymoon. We spoke about childen - I thought of all the money such children cost - they thought of the fun they will have with them when they grow up.
That's the difference!

Hi Teri,  When couples (married)decide to have children, I would not have thought 'they' place a price on having them?? Yuk!! -- Children help make a Happy family, that is what life is all about!! -- We had terrific Fun, with our Touring Caravan and Sailing Dingy. They certainly was -- 'Fab' Times!! -- Sure, there are times, when they are Babies, or teenage and they get hurt. Then you do all in your power, to take that Hurt Away. -- That is just a part of being a family!! -- Not counting Costs;

Mac, We cannot Interfere with another Countries, Culture/Laws!! -- It's bad enough that 'They' want to live Here, and change our's ??

Phoenix you are right, but on the other side at least in Germany a child costs a lot of money - starting from the lack of places in the Kindergarten, so mothers must stay at home and can no longer work, to education, above all if they choose to go to university. Usually German couples have one or two children.If they have five or six and all want to go to university it may get expensive. One of my friends has 5 daughters and nearly all went to university.
To be honest, I wouldn't have missed my children - a life without children unimaginable, but young couples nowadays think different, they see the fun (advantages), but they see also the disadvantages (things you can no longer afford).
As to Africans, their standard of living is much lower than ours and in a way children are their "security for old age".

Phoenix, times have changed. Young people nowadays expect much more from life than we did, i.e. one of the reasons - in my opinion - why many couples separate after a certain time. In Germany we also have many single mothers - as we call them - and often the fathers of the children are not willing to pay for their children.
You know in the UK it's a bit different - but in Germany we don't have full-day schools, i.e. our children are usually at home in the afternoon and often single mothers have to work full-day - so what about the children? And to be honest, today, if you marry it's possibly no longer for the whole life!

That's true - but if you have children or should I say decide in favour of children, it's much better to have the paper. Fortunately laws in Germany have been changed in the past, so that children of unmarried couples have the same rights as those of married couples.
In Germany many families are breaking up because women are no longer as adaptable as before and much better educated. They are no longer dependent on their husband - they can earn their own living, if necessary.

Maybe you miss The Point?? -- I agree Adults should be married, Is they want to raise a family, as it is only 'fair' to The children. -- Just do no think that ALL Men, leave everything to their Wives??  Housework and looking after their children, should be 'shared'-- AS DID I!! -- Men should be and are quite capable, IF?? they want to be, part of the family?? -- Now, Retirement ?? My Point Is?? -- If a couple are Not married, they receive, a seperate pension each -- Their Entitledment!! (as we do)
 If Married, they only receive a married couples Pension!!
Which is quite a bit Less?? WHY??  Can a married couple Live Cheaper than  a couple Not Married?? -- Please Remember!! There should be Equality, between Men and Women?? Housework should be SHARED!! -- I DO!!

Mac, in Germany senior citizen mostly also stay together and don't marry - the reason a widow or a widower gets a pension form his man/wife and if they marry this pension is no longer paid - so why should they marry?
However, in my case it would be unimportant if I marry or not, i.e. it's my own decision - my pension will always be the same.

Two councils have actually left the the taxes the same as last year in this neck of the woods.....................so why havent STOCKPORT !