Not Dead Yet - Forum

When Blair and Brown took over after 18 years of right wing Tory rule
> under Thatcher and Major, Blair and Brown continued right wing Tory
> policies in every area of our Society, nothing changed.
>
> The free market continued to rule, low income tax, and ever higher council
> tax, continued, pensions linked to inflation continued, means testing for
> pensioners continued, ever higher utilities continued, and our rich and
> poor devide has widened.
>
> In other words if the Tories had stayed in Government following 1997,
> things would be the very same, perhaps worse for the poor and the
> pensioners, because they would not have the means tested handouts on
> offer.
>
> What Blair and Brown's New Labour Government have effectivelly achieved is
> to lessen the impact of more that 18 years of right wing Tory rule by
> helping the poor pensioners with means tested handouts, and low earners
> with means tested tax credits, and that is all.
>
> So in effect since 1979, Britain has been ruled by right wing Government's
> todate.
>
> Of course the media and Cameron and the Lib-Dems will point to "Labour's"
> devastating results at the local elections, because the media do not want
> to educate the British electrate to the reality of the situation, and
> particularly Cameron who will continue to refere to this Government as a
> "Labour" Government, when Mr Cameron knows full well that "New" Labour
> have received this bad result because they continued right wing Tory
> policy from the outset in 1997.
>
> And so the farce continues.
>

Ah!!  To be sure, we have all heard it before!!
Whatever so called 'Promises' are made??  few will be kept, by any main Party!! -- One thing we can be sure of??
 The Criminals will be 'Well Looked After' --- No need to even Think about The Victims -- They, are The real Survivor's ??????????????????????????/

The farce will always continue Michael
theres money to be had for them !!!!

The next general election will be the lowest turn out ever.

Ah!! There's 'forward thinking' for us all!!
I really do believe it!! --- It comes from 'Talking' To people, to understand just How?? They feel totally let down ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) Lost their Interest in what goes on and Truelly Believe, The politicians Don't Listen ::) ::)--- So just where do we all go from There ?????????????????????????

I disagree Michael.

T'is but a very poor state that we are all in??
 There is No Common sense or Logic these days it's ALL Gone and got Lost????

Greed rules !!!!! here
me myself and I......it should be a politicians motto !

Mac,   S'right it is!!  The Politician - His/Her Salary - His/Her - PENSION! ---- Sure are a very Lucky lot --What!!

Listening politicians ?, what a red herring.  What this Government never had was a "manifesto".

When a manifesto exists you stick to it. Old Labour had a manifesto but they threw it out the window to move to the right to gain power, leaving the Tories with nowhere to go, and traditional Labour voters out in the cold.

New Labour never existed before 1997, they were manufactured
to grab the vote of middle England.

We have the highest divorce rate in Western Europe among middle England, I wonder if anybody will complain when they lose their houses about the lack of council housing, forgetting for one moment that their hero Thatcher sold them all off and didnt replace them in the 80's ?

Ah, for a moment there Michael, I thought you had forgot to mention Mrs T.

William, "sarcasm" is the lowest form of wit.  Thatcher initiated self centredness in this country on a mammoth scale.

She has ruined people's lives, and she placed millions of our elderly people into penury.

If there are any anti Thatcherites on this site, for once ide welcome support.

HOW ABOUT A   'PEOPLE'S PARTY???  NO POLITICS??
 THERE MUST BE LOTS OF 'SENIOR CITIZENS' OUT THERE, CAPABLE OF RUNNING GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS, WITHOUT CREATING THE USUAL FAULTS?? -- STILL NEED A TRUSTFUL LEADER THOUGH  ::) ::) ::)

Michael,get over her what is your problem ?

She still exists in this Government, or had'nt you noticed ?

Michael,and just who was it before her ?
because there is always someone to blame !
I would rather think about today than the past,thats gone !

Wilson and Callaghan, Mac
Remember thr ground nut scheme

I do and I also remember Ted Heath who was ok as i saw it !

Michael,I am not particularyl for or against MrsT or any other PM, they all have good and bad points,unlike you I can see both sides.What is tiresome is your diatribe against Mrs T everytime you post. Never ever get embroiled in an argument about politics or religion, there isnt any winners.Why dont you join in discussion about other subjects, lets hear about your hobbies etc, anything other than politics.As being into penury, unless you lived in the 1920-30s you dont know what being poor is. So cheer up.

Michael, you criticise Mrs. Thatcher - o.k., but I learnt at school that she was the "Iron Lady", i.e. she achieved things for the UK other countries were only dreaming of and she was a model for many other European leaders. So it seems my teachers were wrong or what?

Teri, Margaret Thatcher took Britain back to victorian values.

She introduced a low waged ( no minimum waged ) economy, she stopped old age pensions for the elderly increasing with national prosperity re- an earnings link.  She sold off council housing for the poor, and stopped building them.

She cut income taxes for the rich, and denied our vital services at local and national level of much needed investment.

And now Europe appear to be following her model

In short she destroyed the long term infrastructure of Britain, for short terrm profit and gain.

Sorry,Michael, but I must contradict you. When I was in the UK in the 60s, conditions of living could not be compared with those in other European countries - why? Partly because you got still cheap goods from your colonies/former colonies. Now you have in Britain normal European conditions, i.e. conditions of life changed in the UK and thus - at least in my opinion - there was no longer any money available for all those benefits you had before.
Perhaps I'm wrong - but don't forget my look on Britain is that of a neutral "Third Person".
In Germany we had some years ago a "super" social system, but there was no longer any money available to pay for it - so it had to be reformed - you remember Schroeder's agenda 2010? Everybody protested, but on the whole it was necessary to boost the German economy and to create more jobs. For me, personnally, it was a catastrophe - that's true, because my pension was considerably reduced, but we are a community and I think we never should forget this.

Those were the good days Teri,the days of Nationalisation,before the capitalists got their hands on it !that is probably why other countries thought we had it good,most of the money went back into the industries,  to retrain our next generation of apprentices,whereas, it is taken by the "new owners"now,none of that came easy for us Teri,the strikes were awful in the begining,with the cotton mill owners etc, everyone fought in some way for that better way of life,this is why people are so bitter now.It was not that long ago we had the workhouses,i know because my brother in law was born on one.
I dont think we got cheap goods from our "colonies" Teri,we still had to watch our pennies,we still had an outside loo then !
Have a nice weekend

Mac, I think there's a difference in view, but that's quite normal. World would be boring if everybody had the same opinion. However, you speak of apprentices, when I was in Scotland last year the guide told us that in the UK apprenticeship - like for instance in Germany - doesn't exist in the UK, thus untrained Polish can work as waiters etc..

Teri we do have some apprenticeships but mainly in medicine,the plumbers electricians and joiners are for 2 years or so and not very highly trained as they used to be.I hate quoting Michael on this but it was Mrs Thatcher that ended apprenticeships with a scheme called YTS and  paid the children £25 a week to do it,some worked 6 days a week for that ! many were abusing the children they were very cheap labour paid for by the government.This of course was for the children not wanting to go to college or family needing them to work.

I didnt finish my last post i got booted I was going to say,that in the  main the UK was doing very nicely untill we went into the EU in the early 70s.Eu worked very well for ireland and many other countries but many feel it didnt work for us.

Mac, How do you think the EU have effected us badly in the 70's ?

Mac, it works for you, too. However, maybe you expected too much! Mac you mustn't think in days or years, but in decades and I'm sure in 50 or 60 years everybody will be happy with our "old Europe".

That We, The Elderly, having the greatest Skills of all time and those who 'suffered' through two world wars, fighting for a better way of life -- and failing miserably. Being brought down to this 'low standard' do Not want to wait 'Decades' ::) ::)Some 'problems' can be rectified, quite easily -- at least to ensure a reasonable Quality of their remaining Lives!! --- Too late to think of Tomorrow!!  Action is Required Now!!  We do not need Europe!! -- There really is a world wide market!!  Most of 'OUR' commodities come from The East!!
Who Cares What happens in 50/60 years time ???
Nobody over 30 years of AGE!!

I never thought it was necessary to be joined to Europe,it has been 40 years now almost and things have gone from bad to worst.We never get asked what we want I know we were asked about going in, and I know nobody who voted yes,but i am sure i will hear of them now !
Other countries seem to have more of a say on what they want whereas we are told what we are having.
Teri in 50 or 60 years our young will only know of it the way it is now.They might even blame us for letting it happen.
It has created many jobs for the retired and Europian MPs so thats alright !!! ???

Mac, when I watch news on TV and they are talking about Brussels, it's often about some issue the British want to have or want to have changed. It's not true that Britain has little to say in the EU and compared to the Germans they were granted a lot of special concessions.

Teri, Yes our Government secured "opt-outs" on welfare, tax, and pensions when Blair held his Presidency of Europe, and right now we are still in there under Gordon Brown trying to pursuade EU leaders to completely ditch their EU Social Charter in favour of our exploitive, low income tax, competitive, free-market model.

That might be true Teri,but we already had our own concessions,that we fought for,when they deal with Brussels its usally for themselves,not us the people.
I still get the impression from the EU thats its dod eat dog,IE the one who shouts loudest gets the bone !

Maybe you are right, Mac, but to us Germans it seems that the British are often among those who shout the loudest, whereas the German Michael has to pay and pay!

Teri and to us English it seems the others are always to blame thats what they tell us and probably tell you too !..................lets all get out before its too late !

No, Mac, let's show them that we are stronger than them!

I aint going anywhere, its not a bad country really

I meant the EU william lol
before the Turks and God knows who else arrive.Soon we will be a muslim state..........how does that grab you lol
dont you dare say you can have more than one wife lol

As far as I have seen in my holidays in Turkey, it will still take a long time until they are ready for the EU. However, as to European men, perhaps they won't be so reluctant to being pampered by several wives lol.

oh! dear!! WHAT A 'ROTTEN' MESS ??
 
WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE OWN UP, AND ACCEPT THE RESPONCIBILITY, FOR ALLOWING THIS COUNTRY TO FALL INTO SUCH A DEEP 'PIT' ::) ::) ::) AND TO COME UP WITH A GREAT IDEA, NOT ONLY TO STOP US FALLING FURTHER, BUT TO 'LIFT US ALL UP ONTO THE LEVEL PLANE AND REGAIN THOSE WONDERFUL 'STANDARDS' OF YESTER YEAR  ::) ::) (50/60S)
 BEFORE IT IS TOO DAM LATE!!

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm dont you want more wives then Phoenix ? lol
too late mate they will be a coming !

Nay! Lass!!  Don't even want One!!  Am very Happy with my partner!! ---- Unless you mean ::) ::) 1 for The Lounge?? 1 for The Kitchen?? 1 for The Bedroom ?? 1 for all the 'things' I Just can't bring to mind?????

glad to hear it phoenix lol