Not Dead Yet - Forum

Britain is at the very BOTTOM of the European pension league

WARNING
 Whether you are a pensioner or a Cabinet Minister or even a Chancellor of the Exchequer - please be aware that YOU will be shocked at these revelations and in no way can we be held liable or responsible for any seizures or ill health that you may suffer if you continue to read on

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!

Country
 % of earnings
 if applied to UK average earnings of £411
 
Luxembourg
 83% of career average Earnings
 £341.13
 
Italy
 83% of last 5 years earnings
 £341.13
 
Portugal
 80% of last 5 years earnings
 £328.8
 
Greece
 80% of last 2 years average earnings
 £328.8
 
Germany
 65% of average earnings
 £267.15
 
Belgium
 60% of average earnings
 £246.60
 
France
 50% of last 10 years earnings
 £205.5
 
Spain
 50% of last 8 years earnings
 £205.5
 
Denmark
 40% of average earnings
 £164.4
 
Holland
 flat rate equal to minimum wage
 £180
 
Ireland
 flat rate (Actual amount)
 £106
 
UK
 flat rate equal to 17.63% of average earnings (actual amount)
 £72.50
 

 

Michael, Why should We be 'shocked' ?? -- WE already know that we are The poor relations of europe!!  The Pensioners that is!!  I am sure that our'Cabinet ministers' are fully aware of this, that is undoubtedly why, They have had a Large Increase, In Their pensions ::) ::) Really is a great 'warning' of your's??  I wonder just How many Pensioners have died this last Winter, because of lack of Heating and lack of Food  ::) ::)-----

I find it Truelly Amazing, just how many Persons in a 'Responcible' Position?? Do Not Consider themselves, LIABLE --- Or Even Responcible!! For 'Their People' but are so used to 'Passing The Buck' ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

If your figures are right Michael,there is something drastically wrong here !

Yes my figures are right.

Michael,a lot of the Eu countries wont have got that amount for a weekly wage will they ? isnt that why they are all coming here ?

I believe they have a much fairer spread of wealth across the EU, unlike here in Britain with our very poor and our very rich which all started in the 1980's under Thatcher and Major, and continued by New Labour.

if thats the case Michael why do they come here ?
No hospital beds
no dentists
no houses etc etc etc
what else could it be ?
not the weather !

In my view dont get as many Eastern European immigrant's as we would like to think, we have to believe we get a lot because otherwise there is no point in scapegoating them.

However the UK has a worldwide reputation as a wonderful country that is put about by our media and our politicians,
and I think we get our own rosy picture built in by this.

You see the main trouble with Britain is that we have a long held superiority complex with each other and the rest of the world.

It couldnt be because of the free handouts could it ?

If you truly believe that anybody likes living on our means tested benefits, then you clearly have never been in this situation.

Michael,It is quite obvious that you do not live in a'working area' as we do??  Yes!! We have been 'means tested' --- which equats to being the wrong colour!!
 T'ia a different World ---- HERE!!

Michael, there was a time it was said that the sun didn't go down in the British Empire - so, why are you astonished that so many people from your former Empire have only one desire - to come into this "land of glory"? I hope I don't offend you, but I think you should bear in mind that your ancestors always told their subjects, that everything was superior in the UK. Now they want to check whether this is really true.
Moreover, all countries of the Western world have the same problem - African people for instance are much better off in one of the still "poor" European countries than in Africa. Or think of the Mexicans that "invade" the USA. 

Yes, I know about the Empire and the arrogant British, we not only look down on the rest of the world, we also look down on our own, and the politicians use this narrow mindedness to get votes.

As far as the rest of your posting is concerned, I dont live in Africa, I live in Britain, the 4th richest economy in the world, with an ever increasing rich and poor devide.

That's true Michael, but don't forget that the British had many colonies in Africa and still have a lot of influence in Africa.
What a luck for the Brits that Africa is so far away from the UK, so Africans flood mainly Spain and Italy. They come in small boats and many die on their dangerous trip to a better life.
You see, all things have two sides - sorry.

Well my pension has gone down by £40 a month,this is the difference the abolishion of the 10p makes to me !
and before any smart Alex says `well you must be on a good screw` I am £5 a week over for benefits !!!
I am sure there are many even worse off too.
But the good news is Gordon has said he is sorry,saying sorry to me means taking it back ? watch this space ! >:(

Yes, Britain has the most devisery pensions and benefits system in Europe.

The government get away with taxing you pensioners and paying you a lousy state pension, and then means test you for handouts.

This is Britain, the 4th richest economy in the world, with the meanest and most devisery benefits and pensions system in the EU.

Yes this is 21st century Britain with the 4th largest economy in the world.

Yet with the meanest most devisery pensions and benefits system in Europe.

But we let it all happen, weve nobody to blame but ourselves, we British are the most apathetic and politically docile race in Europe.

Mr.Brown said he was sorry,what more can we sak for...............I could ask for my £35 quid back he just stolen from me !
I have one vote in a staunch labour ward.............so I dont have a hope !
I asked about living abroad.............and they will tax me at source.......so I will still have to pay it !!! not a hope !
Everyone seems to forget this is the money we paid into !

Exactly, our politicians have used your years of N.I. contributions on other things.

Yet the means test initiated by Thatcher from the 80's, mimimicking the 30's means test, is costing 0ver 10 times more on income tax payers money than it would cost to restore the link with earnings.

Britain is a very wealthy nation, I cannot for the life of me understand why Gordon Brown has stepped into the Blairite
Thatcherite right wing mould.

Maybe its because his parents were middle class tories ?
Yet again he has hit the minority,he knows he will get a away with it, not enough of us,and most people are better off as he says with the new 20% tax for all.Sadly this wont help my friend on the very very low threshold hers has risen from 59p to £10.59p so very sad thats he feels he gains from that !!!! I hope they lose every seat in the by-elections to the UKIP.

Local Elections ????  Open for a Labour opportunity, Again?? -- A chance for UKIP ???? -- BNP ???????
 Any other 'Groupie' out there ???????

So do I, but our poor will fair no better from another Tory government, and the rich and poor devide will continue.

We need a government who will reverse the Thatcher years in taxation and pensions, but where are they ?

If only We Knew The Answer To That One ::) ::)

Perhaps the Liberal Democrats ?

We have Lib/Dems here in stockport they have been in for years and the rates are the highest in the north west,and went up the most this year............no thanks !!!

You dont understand do you.  The rates are the Council Tax.  And the council tax was brought in under Thatcher as the poll tax, and the poll tax was brought into replace increases in national income tax to fund local services.

It doesnt matter who is in charge of local authorities anywhere in the country, it doesnt matter if the council tax is high, or low, what matters is it's an unjust tax brought in by Thatcher and kept in by New Labour.

I wish people would look at the wider issues, and stop thinking of their wallets, then we might start getting somewhere in this country.

And none of the other governments have changed it have they,in fact the LIb Dem have increased it here !
Thatcher was for the parliamentarians not the people,not even her people,but her people faired better with the banding !
They have had 14 years to change it and have they no !
and now with the loss of the 10p tax and the increase in rates the people have said enough is enough ! what next.........let the UKIP have a chance !
I await the general election with anticipation and hope they get tonked again well and truely to the UKIP !

You must have nightmares about Mrs T Michael., she only brought in the council tax under pressure, she brought in the poll tax which was fairer than the council tax.

What rubbish you talk.  The Poll Tax was an unjust tax like the council tax because it was not based on ability to pay.

Also the Poll Tax was introduced by Margaret Thatcher to rep;lace increases in direct taxation ( national income tax ) from which to fund our local communities UK wide.

The Poll Tax was introduced to begin the devolution of local Communities from central Government funding, because since the 1980's, the local tax under three names poll tax, communti charge, and now council tax, has increased by stealth over the years to fund local communities, but national income tax has been increased to fund the same.

When Margaret Thatcher was in power she wanted to remove the "role of the state" from local communites, hence income tax payers money being cut from the outset in 1980, and Poll Tax/Community Charge, Council tax being introduced.

And it is this "shift" in tax policy that is helping to widen our rich and poor devide.

Oh dear Michael, what a blinkered view of life you have.
as they say, you cant preach to the converted,I can only hope someday you will see the light,tho I doubt it,as the only one who dosnt talk rubbish we will have to bow to your "suprior" knowledge.
  Mrs T is still the bestPM this country has had since the war.

""Mrs T is still the bestPM this country has had since the war"".

And you call me blinkered ????????????????

What my post stated were facts.

Michael has Gordon Brown done a `u`turn on this 10p abolition of income tax?. Someone said he had.
I really hope so.

William, Im challenging you, why do you believe that Mrs Thatcher was the great PM she was ?

The Good thing about Mrs.Thatcher??  She fort, good and hard -- Against going into the e.e.c. and Not, to be 'Ruled' by another country!! Shame 'othere's' could not see that?? --- there is still a World wide market to 'deal' with and let's face it?? Just what do we export ???---- Poor olde gordon brown, he said he did not 'Listen' to The people??? -- There has been enough of, stealing from our people??  Lets go back to how life WAS and start yet again, maybe something can be put right????

Michael. Do Kindly STOP!!   Talking Down to us!!  You will most certainly NOT get us to Totally agree with You!!
Why not, just Concentrate on HOW??  the Next TEN YEARS will affect us ALL!!

And to that I would add what is your problem with Mrs T she didnt harm us as much as this lot have !
To me you are like Gordon Brown,confused!

Phoenix, We are not being ruled by Europe, this is a myth perpetuated by the right wing press, which is apparantly being believed by people who are only to happy to do so.

Today my friends and I were talking about when we had our Natonalised industries,like the Gas board and Electricity board and water board and GPO,Railways etc.
We all agreed that we had a far better service than we do  now and all the people were highly skilled in  their jobs.
What happened ? why did we let them do this to us ? I know we tried, well the miners certainly did but alas they were crushed.Capitalism is only good for a few.

Totally Agreed Mac, No Skills Today (except computers)
 I was one in my field and i still try to maintain those Standards, but unfortunatly, my age and health is a restriction. Which is possibly a Good thing ::) ::)

capitalism might be good for a few, but communism aint goods for anybody

Michael, all we hear from you, is, what a mess the right wing have made of this country, can I ask, what would theLEFT WING do to put it right.

If you dont know, I can't tell you.  You are a Thatcher supporter, so you dont believe in the welfare state, the NHS, the minimum wage, the pensions link to earnings, all fought for in 1948 by the left, against the right, who did not believe in any of these virtues in a civilised Society.

You say you cant tell me, of course you cant cos you havnt a clue.

Read my above posting.

Michael,  I am quite sure, that we are all aware of your Dislikes and Critisimns?? --- As a 'Potencial' MP ?????
What do you really Believe in?? How Do You Forsee The Future, for Our People?? -- Do you really need and want, Our Support ?? -- Can you really believe that You would make an 'Honest' Member of Parliament ::) ::) ::)

move to the future Michael
Thatcher is gone long gone...........and there have been many more since her that have feathered their own nests off the backs of us workers............we have one right now our PM,Blair did very well too.
Once it was the factory owners and the mill owners,mine owners, who ripped us off now it is the parliament MPs and the town halls.
All I can say is, it was much better when everyhing was nationalised far better standards.!
Maybe you would stand a chance at getting into parliament if you plan to re-instate nationalised industries who knows ?

mac, I whole heartedly agree with you re- nationalisation, but New Labour under Blair and now Brown, are continuing fundamental Thatcherism, the iron lady has not gone at all, her bloody awful legacy lives on.

Thatcher's not gone, she lives on in New Labour, but I do agree with you about Nationalisation, we should re- nationalise Britain.

Thank you for that Michael.at last we agree on something,
Now what do you think of the late Gwyneth Dunwoody`s seat being up for grabs to a Miss England ? and who the hell has put her in for it ? she says parliament wants jazzing up  to make it interesting ? well all I can say is we have all the jazzing we need right now we got the greedies and the takers and the me myself and I`s.........I wont even go down the road of Raving Looney party !

Miss England ?, what we need is opposition to the right wing in government, and the right wing in opposition.

We need democracy !!!

True Mac, not left wing crackpots or BNP fools

William,its like looking for the Messiah,looking for a leader !

Someday another strong leader will appear.
Maybe I shouldnt have called em crackpots, that was out of order, because I think everyone is entitled to their beliefs, its when they try to force their beliefs on other people that gets my back up.

Yes, like Thatcher, the dictater.

She was a captalist michael as so many are these days and not just in politics either !

She was a capitalist michael as so many are these days,and not just in  politics either !

Ar! So!  Capitalist = Dictator = Blair and now Brown ??

Yes!! That really is Logic and suggests 'Common Sense' ::)
 
NEXT ??????????????????????????????

Next get rid !

... and who will tell you then what you have to do?

Lol the people will vote for the next prime minister Teri not the previous one Blair !

Hope this time you will vote for the "right" one!

I did last time but they didnt get in lol !

Thus the majority didn't share your choice, Mac.

The majority  all claim benefits so they wont vote for anything else hence its a waste of time they outnumber us,but not for long soon we wont have a hope lol

Politicians!! Political Parties! = YUK!!  Read their so called 'policies' via computer?? Not much to speak about??
 All Tell Lies?? ER!!  Distort The Truth ::) ::) ::)
 Why does everything Have to be politically motovated??
 Can't one just be ??   "BRAND X"  ::) ::) ::)

Phoenix, politicians just tell you what you expect them to promise you. We say "before the election isn't after the election".

True! True! and True! -- So??  Why bother to Vote ::) ::)
Except to 'kid' oneself, that 'things' may well get better?? --------  =  NO CHANCE!!

True and that's the reason why in Germany less and less people are taking part in the elections and unintendently we have a situation like at present - a big coalition with such a lot of power!

AH!!!!  Does that mean ALL The Best Brains ???
Would be Working Together ??? ??? ???
 What is The 'End' product ??

Teri you can have Mr Brown for free with compliments even !!!!

Phoenix, I doubt that it means the best brains, it rather means all those that have ellbows (dog-eat-dog manner) and can speak like a book without putting it in concrete term. In my opinion the best government is a government that has a majority and a strong opposition.
Mac, as to your Mr. Brown, I think he wouldn't like to be a chancellor in Germany.

As it is said'here' -- "Talk is Cheap" = "Action is required"!! --Should you need someone that can get out of 'literately' -- Take Brown and his 'Co-Horts' NOW!!

Phoenix, you say "Action is required" - at the moment we have too  much of this in Germany - to the detriment of the man in the street. Some days ago some politicians were very annoyed because other politicians had decided to raise  the pensions of senior citizens by - I think it was 1,1 %. Last week they told us that the parliamentary allowance will be raised - today in the news they told us that even some politicians couldn't understand that in times where everybody has to do without any extra money the allowances of our politicians should be raised - so they decided to postpone it.

Not on is it Teri
all pensioners should automatically get the cost of rises in the cost of living,in their pensions its not their fault the governments cant do their sums right.We got it right why cant they............and at the same time leave us alone and stop taking from us !

Partly true - Mac, the state are we and we expect a lot - good roads, schools, swimming pools, theatres, income support in case of need etc. etc. However, as to Germany I'm of the opinion that our ministers etc. earn too much money for the work they are doing!

Action !!  of course this country has action ::) all criminal activities are UP!!  The councils are penalising Seniors, for putting rubbish in the wrong wheelie bins ::)
If a senior is partialy sighted and on sticks?? Tough!!
 Still gets 'fined'!! Oh!! to be sure, Big Brother is out there watching all the time ::) ::)--- Roads??? you should actually come and SEE, the 'cone men' and read the complaints?? -- Holes in the roads?? we have Pot holes!!
 Oh! the weird and wonderful things that actually Do happen here ::) ::) ::) -- Blessed are those that govern us, they are really trying to do their ------best ????

I dont assume our ministers get too much I know they get too much !
We pay for schools and hospitals and street lights and policing and firemen mostly from our community tax Teri,and we catered for that when younger,but now it is so high £1300.00 a year mine is,when I first was widowed it was £300 a year,10 years ago.And now they are taking even more from me in income tax,and only two small rises in the pension in those years.I have to say it Teri all this influx from the Europians is taking its toll on  us pensioners and the whole nation,because the Europians are very well looked after here compared to their own countries I dont blame them,anybody with half a brain would come here.But our parliament cannot keep taking from the brits its not right all the children in the Eu who have a parent here can claim the family allowance from here and it works out at millions and millions.Brown needs to get his act together before we go bankrupt and he goes back to Scotland who are doing very nicely right now ? Who will pick up the pieces then not the EU.

Mac, I suppose the EU will then have to support you!

No Teri they will take my home first,and only the scottish pensioners will keep theirs.!
If I go into a home for any reason I will forfeit my home and any money I have.
If I live in Scotland they dont have to do that they can keep it and go into a home.Not fair is it since we are governed by a scot with scottish ministers to boot,all making it easy for themselves when they retire.What makes it worse is the english contribute to this scottish scheme.
It goes back a long way with the Scots Teri,I believe they actually hate us !

Mac, at least they don't love you too much - that was my impression when I was there on holiday last year!
As to the home, in Germany you also will have to sell your house, if you go into a home. However, Mac, I think we should always bear in mind that what we have saved when we were young and of middle age, we saved it for the time when we are old. Formerly children cared for their parents when they were old and they inherited all their parents had saved - today only few children are prepared to care for their parents when they are old.

I know what children of today are like Teri lol
Yes we saved and saved hard and now the Scot is taking it all lol and yes we English are mad !

Mac, the Scot you speak of, didn't you vote him or at least your MPs?

One has to actually Live here, to even try to understand, just what is happening to our own people!! ---
most of our M.Ps. are scottish and can Vote for scottish Laws!!  English M.Ps. cannot Vote on Scottish laws!!
 As for brown, he has never been Elected!!
 Today's newspaper's state ----- A Depression is now 95% possible -- IS THAT, GOOD NEWS FOR 'OUR'PEOPLE ?????????
 Petrol will be closing to £6 a gallon?? Thereby Denying, at least us older people -- The Use Of Their Cars???
 Tell us, Is THAT FAIR ??? ??? ???

Phoenix, don't complain - we pay 1.50 Euro for one litre of petrol. Thirty years ago, when I got my first car I paid
30 Deutschmark (15 Euro) for one tank filling, now I pay about 60 Euro (120 Deutschmark) for it. However, as my mother is living on the other end of the town I need a car!

Teri,the Scot got the job handed to him from Blair we had no say in it.
Not so long ago Teri before Eu,we had it all nationalised industries excellent jobs,houses hospitals and schools.Our forefathers worked and fought for that,as did we too,when all the migrants came here it was too many too soon we didnt cater now there is a crisis and he is short of funds,he is taxing everything and anything he can get his hands on,even the dead !!!! We here feel it is because of the influx of migrants(brothers and sisters) we dont even need,and the cost of them, that there are problems here financially,I only hope Brown goes before it is too late.
The person that stands up and speaks his or her mind  and speaks the truth,will get in, we need a leader and an honest one to boot ! sadly they are all whimps all scared of not being politically correct.

Teri, You! are in a very 'weak' position, to actually Tell ME, Not to Complain!! -- I am Only Interested In Our OWN Country!!  Not In Somebody Else's  ??? ??? -- Just How far Do You Think OUR PENSION GOES ??????????

Mac, What is it that you feel is the fault of immigrant's ?

Hello Michael
Too many too soon,and we havent catered.The only good thing about migration is we can move too,but its not given to us on a plate,unless we go to Eu.
We are a very small island and the rate that the migrants are coming from all over the world,is alarming to me to say the least and I know I am not alone in thinking this.
Migration is only a small part of my worries over the Uk,my main worry is Brown !!!!

Phoenix, I can understand that you only want to think of your country, your pension etc. However, whether we like it or not we Europeans are linked together and in not too far a future we will have the same laws, prices, pensions etc. Although I must admit the idea of getting a basic pension would not at all please me! In many Euro-countries prices for food etc. are already the same. Ask your son, he will tell you that prices considerably have increased in Spain since the introduction of the Euro.

Its just spain Teri is it,I think they are all feeling it.
I dread it when its our turn.

I have just returned from BULGARIA who converted to the euro last year, alread the cost if living is begining to rise at a rapid rate, fortunately we stay in a village and the rise is not as big there.You and I and the politicians know of the effects it is having in other countries, do you think our MPs will be stupid enough to go for it.

 


Pheonix, had you read Teris earlier post, I think you would agree that she is in a strong position. When Germany replaced the Mark with Euros, instead of so many Marks to the Euro, it was a straight swap, consequently prices virtually doubled overnight Imagine if that happened here

I think they will go for it eventually William,they will have to,but not before they have put their own houses in  order,I think they will use the off shore banks before they do it.

Quite to the contrary!! I Repeat??  I am Not Interested, in any other Country!! -- There are More than enough Problems, in our own!! -----

Anyone, can if they wish?? Ask me, just what my Complaints are based on?? -- Providing of course, the relevancy, is Only for This Country!!

Of course, we are all interested in the wellbeing of this country, but to say we arnt interested in other countries , is to say the least nery narrow minded and blinkered.

Oh! dear! William,  Because I do not show any interest in other countries ??  You feel that I am 'Narrow Minded' and 'Blinkered'  ??? ??? ??? -- You really are, a long way from The Truth!! --

Pheonix, you certainly give that impression from your posts. What happens in other countries , can and does effect us, eg Iraq, Afgahnistan, how much better off would we be if we wernt spending billions on these countries. Iran, Syria, millions spent wathing these two countries, USA when they have a depression we have one, finally our friends in Brusells, when they  snap their fingers we jump to it.Whether we like it or not, we no longer are isolated as an island but but part of a larger community

We do learn from other countries though Phoenix,and I fear what Teri said about everything doubling will happen here.!

Only as some other countries have more stability for their own people. This country of our's?? does not learn from it's past mistakes and constantly repeats itself. It's not 'rocket science' to understand, just what is actually happening ---- End Of Story ::) ::) ::)
Not much of Interest, so I may well Retire, from this scene:

Phoenix this `Scene` is for the likes of you and Wil and I to say what we feel or think...............ok,sometimes we differ thats life.Remember we still have a vote and many dont have that.

My friends mate lives in America,and he has a business,he has been there for 9 years and has a wife and family there.
He has a contract in force right now for 2M dollars,his brother died recently and they wont let him go to the funeral because he doesnt have citizenship,he doesnt have it because they wont give it,if he goes he wont be allowed back in the USA ! He is Irish by the way,and all he wanted to do was go to the funeral,some country the USA yeh ?

Perhaps has 'similarities' with our country??
Will not deport those that speak against this country and yet, will not allow those that actually Fought for us, in the last war, into this country!! -- So much for Discrimination!!

William, it doesnt matter how much we spend in other countries on wars and such like, state pensions, and services both local and national are being run down by the right wing New Labour Government, its as simple as that.

Welcome back Michael.I agree, pensions are falling further ehind,but wether it be right wing or left wing in power,it wont make the slightest difference,I have seen a few govt, in power in my time and in my opinion pensioners are better off today than ever,there are various credits they can claim, and before you snap mt head off,they still not as well off as they ought to be.Surely if we are not spending millions on war, there is money to be spent on other things.

Well there you go folks,all those millions invested abroad especially Iceland,and here was me believing what the councils say,that they are hard up,!!!!!my a.se.!!!!!
and guess what will happen now ?
yes you are right the rates will go up again !
surprse surprise.

Hello Michael, Glad that you have not deserted us!!
 How have you progressed with contacting Senior Citizens, as in your previous posts ?? -- How do You actually feel about this, Our Country and it's People ??  Are we getting a Good Deal ?????  I think Not !!  The Pensioner's of Today are only better off, because of the modernisation of their Homes and better standards. Not because of any finacial awards. It appears that for some, it is easy to receive various credits, to increase their income. Thankfully we do not receive any support and maintain our independance --- for what it is worth ?? With millions and billions of pounds Lost, just how are our people going to survive. How long will it last, till back to Normal ???